This week at PDYM, Doug Fields taught a point about making sure the next step was clear from the entry-level weekend service to small groups. It hit me – it was happening, but we weren’t doing it super well right now!
We do promo joining a small group from stage from time to time, it is part of a message every month or so – there are even applications to join a small group at the info area. But, we wanted to make sure it showed up visually, too. Here’s what we came up with, rotating in with the announcement/welcome slides. Silly fun.
JG
UPDATE: Added links to HD versions of each promo slide.
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Josh Griffin has been in youth ministry for 15+ years and serves as the High School Pastor at Saddleback Church. [
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Geoff Stewart serves the Jr / Sr High School Pastor at Peace Portal Alliance Church in Surrey B.C.
hmm posting these on april fools day is nice timing, because it might leave some people wondering if these are legit promos or not…
Octo-Mom small group…genius….before too long tho that group will become too big and it’ll need to be split…
Octo Mom promo = glorious!
Love the Octo-Mom Promo!
I would have expected to see provocative pictures playing with lust and coveting of young women and men on a Hollywood poster or on TV. Even joking about the divorced woman having babies out of wedlock… is sin funny? I enjoy humor, but sin is not funny, try asking Jesus sometime about it. Ephesians 5:4 “and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.”
Why is this funny? Is there no fear of God left in any American church?
Please don’t mistake me for some angry legalist. The emotions that accompany this post are those of sorrow. It’s getting harder and harder to tell the church apart from the world.
It saddens me to see that picture of Nadya Suleman on your web page and making fun of her (I’m sorry.. no matter how you slice it this is making fun of this woman). Whether that photo is real or not, I wonder if she would approve of it? Then using it to make a joke about church small groups? How is this showing the love of Christ? C’mon…. Christians should be better than this. How is the world supposed to tell us apart when it looks like we’re acting like the world?
Then also to have several replies as well saying “yea!” and “good job” with the picture! Where’s the Biblical discernment? Please consider what you’re doing.
In love,
-chris
Robin, Chris and “none”,
The purpose of these pictures is to grab the attention of the student who has not yet commited themselves to a small group. Typically this type of student is at the “crowd” stage of their spirtual commitment, meaning the only commitment they have made it to attend a church service. You all know the world we live in and the disgusting images both churched and unchurched teenagers have access to 24/7. In my opinion, these are hardly cause for concern. If these pictures are effective in moving a student to a deeper spiritual commitment, mission accomplished!
Keep up the good work HSM!
Corey Bearden
Corey,
I’m all for reaching out to the lost. But our guide to doing this should be the Bible, don’t you agree? How is making fun of a woman who’s obviously on a hard road with the size of her family something that can be justified? You rightly point out the images that youth today see… so why is this website acting just like the world by doing the same thing? These images are *not* God-honoring. It worries me that you think that the picture of Nadya Suleman is ‘hardly cause for concern’. The problem with that mindset is, where do you draw the line? The motivation for a teen to join a small group should be simple… something like ‘we all know life is hard. it’s hard because this world is full of sin. we see it all day long, but we also are guilty of committing it. our conscious bears witness to the fact that we’ve broken God’s laws – we’ve lied, we’ve stolen, we’ve taken God’s name in vain, we’ve looked at somebody with lust (which Jesus calls adultery). the Bible makes it clear that the penalty for breaking these laws is eternity in Hell. but God doesn’t want that for you, and that’s why he came down from Heaven in the form of Jesus Christ to live the perfect life you could not. then he died on the cross, taking *your* sins on his shoulders. and if you repent of your sins (agreeing with God that you’ve sinned against Him alone and turn from them) and put your trust in Jesus, you can be guaranteed that you’ll spend eternity in Heaven instead of Hell. our small groups are filled with teens just like you, except they’ve been born again. we want that for you as well. let us help you move out of the darkness into the light.”
The simple example I’ve just given is Biblical, and God-honoring. It is *not* like what the world sees or does, and teens reading it should see that clearly. What they see right now with the pictures and ads on this page is no different that the world. We need to let the light of Jesus shine forth from us!
With love,
-chris
fail. period. Plus, you’re a church so what are you doing featuring movie stars on your promo even if it were just for April Fools? It just goes to show that you’re trying to gain an audiance by attracting them with the lust of the eyes rather than letting the Holy Spirit draw on the hearts of men. sad day.
Chris,
Man, I really appreciate your reply. I can tell you have put a lot of thought into this subject. Here’s the deal, I think what this boils down to is just a differece in ministry philosophy. I agree that our guide to reaching the lost should be the Bible. That’s why when I read about how Paul used “an alter with the inscription ‘to an unknown god’” when preaching to unbelievers in Athens (Acts 17:16-34) I am convinced that we need to use objects and images familiar with our unbelieving culture just as he did.
I just don’t think the picture of Nadya Suleman is making fun of her. I think that she would probably get a laugh from it! (And maybe join a small group)
You conclude your reply with what seems to be your example of a call to accept Christ as savior. I agree 100% with all of this. I would probably focus more on the joy that comes through a life lived in relationship with God and the hope we have in our assurance of heaven rather than going straight to sin and hell. But that’s just me. It’s just a difference in style. Personally, I think God would laugh at these pictures. Then maybe after the service we could ask Him to lead a small group. Now He would make an awesome volunteer!
Corey Bearden
cbearden@sanmarcosfbc.org
This is just unacceptable from a Christian church.
Are you paying the photographer who took that shot of Lindsay and Nadya the appropriate royalties for using the photographs? If not, your ad campaign is not only a disgrace, it also might be illegal…
Mr. Griffin and Corey,
Your attempt to lure young people to your ministry by appealing to their ‘lust of the eyes’ is appalling.
I fear that your conscience is both ‘seared and defiled’. (1 Tim 4:2; Titus 1:15)
Sir, have you never read Matthew 18:6-9?
“but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea… woe to the one by whom the temptation comes”.
Corey, your response to Chris Jones’ clear presentation of the Gospel reveals your lack of understading of what the Gospel even is.
My friendly counsel to you both would be to step down from your so-called ‘student ministry’ (so that you don’t bring more shame to the name of Christ) until you have repented, studied the Scriptures, and gained a proper understanding of the Gospel and biblical ministry.
Speaking the truth in love,
Heath
I’m not a hater.
That is exactly the problem here. What you are professing is only half the Gospel. Here is an an example: You go see your Doctor and the doctor tells you that you will need the following medicines to help cure you. You’re sitting there not fully understanding what this is all about. What medicines ? why do I need a cure ? But wait, if the doctor initially came up to you a said that you have 10 clear symptoms of a very rare disease and the doctor informs you and explains each of the symptoms, to help you understand the diagnosis. You will be more receptive of the medicines to help cure you. That is what the Bible teaches about the Gospel. We don’t go up to non-believers and tell them that you can have a better life if you accept and believe in Jesus Christ. They would not understand the real reason we need Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. We have to explain to the non-believer the need for repentance, because we have sinned against God. We have transgressed God’s law, the 10 commandments. Please understand that Hell is a real place and as a Pastor, you will be held more accountable. When you stand in front of God on the day of judgement, you will have to give account of your shepherding. So please, preach the FULL Gospel. Please remember that what you attract people with, is what you will have to keep them there. People’s salvation’s are at stake….this is for eternity. Not to get a laugh out of it.
Um…if there are things that tick you off on this blog, perhaps you don’t need to read it anymore. Police your close group of friends and family, don’t try to police the Church via blog comments.
I guess that was the first time you ever heard of the Gospel ? Nice choice of words “tick you off”…are you Saved ? have you ever Repented ?
Jeff,
People who care about the glory of Jesus Christ and the souls of men will speak up when His name is disgraced and His Gospel is perverted. And that is exactly what is happening here.
To attach those images to the Name and Gospel of Jesus Christ is blashpemy.
We are to call people to Christ with the truth of the Gospel – not with worldly means that appeal to someone’s sin nature! This type of ‘ministry philosophy’ will produce numerous false converts who hear the most fearful words ever spoken: ‘Depart from Me, I never knew you’. (Matt. 7:23)
Christianity is not a social club; it is not a self-help program; and it is not open for personal re-interpretation. Christianity is the redeemed people of God; reconciliation to God on the basis of the atonement of Christ, forgiveness of sins through repentance and faith in Christ, and the spiritual new birth by the power of the Holy Spirit; and it’s message is unchanging.
We are living in a day where spiritual discernment is at an all-time low and the consequences are both horrific and eternal.
Hear me on this: I am writing here because I am motivated by love.
Heartfelt prayers,
Heath
Remember this, we don’t make converts. The Holy Spirit does. Whether or not they are truly following Jesus is NOT for us to make happen. If we were able to “make it happen” then how much simpler would it be right? You are giving power to yourself. You, nor I, make Christians. No church makes Christians. If you’ve got a problem with the work the Holy Spirit is doing in the lives of people, take it up with Him.
For one I appreciate the work that Churches around the world are doing to stem the tide of unbelief. Do you think that because this particular Church has baptized so many that it can’t possibly be real or that those decision were all fake? Sounds like someone who’s dealing with jealousy and grumpiness. Just post your website called http://www.wehateeverychurchthatisdifferentthanours.com and be done with this. What are you accomplishing? I’m tired of people perusing the blogs of people just to post that they are blasphemers who are not saved. Seems like the blogger of this site is taking the high road and ignoring your venemous spew. I’m speaking for myself here, but I think your comments just ought to disappear. You seem so bitter and hateful but worse than that you try to hide it behnd “the Gospel” and words you learned in seminary. Build a bridge, get over it.
Friend,
I truly have no desire to bicker or bash – just want to share the truth and desire to engage in mature discussion of these weightiest of matters.
Allow me to clarify: It seems as though you overlooked a key phrase in my last post, so I’ll copy it here: “the spiritual new birth by the power of the Holy Spirit”. (I was making reference to John chapter 3.) Hopefully that clears up my views on that.
But it seems you also overlooked Matthew 23:15 where the Lord Jesus says this: “…you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte (‘convert’ in NIV), and when he becomes a proselyte (convert), you make him twice as much a child of Hell as yourselves.”
So, we agree that God alone has the power to convert, regenerate, and save someone.
But it is also a frightening reality that we can be responsible for deceiving precious people into thinking they have nothing to fear – when in fact Jesus taught the opposite (Matt. 10:28).
Heath
So..Jeff…what are you spewing about on this blog, since you don’t belong to this church…..you are very strong in your words and it appears you have a lot of hatred in your heart….jealousy ?? grumpiness ?? is that the flesh talking ? are the throw backs on this blog truly glorifying to God ? Jeff would you say all these things if Jesus was sitting beside you ? and be done with this ?? Nice….good to see a true Christian with the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you like that just spewing out. As the owner of the blog would say, since he believes that putting on this site that he is somewhat part owner of the largest star wars site…..may the force be with you…whatever that may be in your dark world.
@ Corey #9
I understand that. I used to think that it was a good strategy. But I’ve found that over the years, it doesn’t work.
Follow me on this because I have first-hand knowledge, not just opinion (I worked for a church for over 10 years which used that strategy).
The very simple truth is this: the church will do what it can to make the message more attractive. The people like what they hear and the congregation gets bigger. The bigger the congregation, the bigger the building. The bigger the building, the more money it takes to support it. The more money it takes, the more people are needed.
It’s at that point that the leadership will not teach the full truth of the Gospel (including the less attractive truths of God’s Word) because they know that when they do, most of the congregation will be offended and leave. What you end up with is a congregation full of people who are in serious danger of thinking they’re saved, but aren’t.
How many of the people who are the so called “haters” have actually been to Saddleback? Just wondering.
@ 23,
It seems to me there is more to this story. Email me if you would like to explain your position further. I would love to hear it.
Corey
cbearden@sanmarcosfbc.org
Corey,
Thanks for the invitation but there is no more to the story that would add or clarify what I’m saying.
Myself and the rest of the commentators on this blog are simply making the true statement that when you, as a leader, compromise your holiness, those whom God has placed in your care will do the same.
Be honest with them. Don’t deceive them with the “bait-and-switch” marketing techniques. These are people, not customers. Love and respect them enough to give them all of the truth of the Gospel up front. As God says, “speak the truth in love”.
Corey, the church in America is in deep trouble. Please. I beg of you. Take the time and ask God if what I’m saying isn’t true.
man… can I just plead with you. Please stop. This is coming from somone who just left the age bracket. Please, Im begging you. We are already drowing in materialistic, cheap, shallow stuff being pumped out of pop-culture. Please stop. We want somthing diffrent. We want somthing real. We want somthing that will really change our lives, somthing we can grab onto, we want God. Please, I know you intentions are well meant, but please, the shallowness is almost insulting. Do you think we dont see through it? Do you really have to trick me into going to church etc. ? Please stop. Just show me that Jesus really can change a life, all by himself, without any of this stuff! Even the normal person on the street knows we are being mass marketed everything – isnt Jesus powerful enough all by himself? Just give me truth from scripture, show why it is diffrent, show me why I truly need it. I beg, I plead, I scream, I will cry… I’m too young to figure it out on my own, but I know there is something deeper, the world is not giving it and you look just like the world. Please. Im begging. I could use scripture to point out why a bunch of those posters are wrong, but maybe a plea from those that they are aimed at will reach you.
In Christ
Josh,
Would you post higher quality pics on the SYM website so we can use them as small group promo slides? For all of you guys who have your panties in a wad, get a grip. Do you think Jesus never laughed and had a sense of humor? Quit trying to spread your joylessness to others. And quit using the excuse of “speaking the truth in love” to bash other Christians and other ministries. I think God is far more grieved by Christian ugliness than He is by a few humorous small group slides. Why don’t you focus on doing what God has called you to do (which is not criticizing other ministries, I can guarantee that!) and allow other ministries to do what God has called them to do?
“I think God is far more grieved by Christian ugliness than He is by a few humorous small group slides.” (28, Seth)
“You all know the world we live in and the disgusting images both churched and unchurched teenagers have access to 24/7. In my opinion, these are hardly cause for concern.” (9, Corey)
I dont really remeber reading anywhere that God wants us to focus on the major sins and marginalize the minor sins. We pursue purity on every level, in every expression, on every path, in every way.
I dont care what someone else is doing, we are talking about these particular slides. I compare them to scripture, and they are found to be dishonoring to Christ and demeaning to the Gospel.
“For all of you guys who have your panties in a wad, get a grip.” (28 Seth) – so is this statement suppose to represent the true “speaking the truth in love”?
One last bit – “Why don’t you focus on doing what God has called you to do (which is not criticizing other ministries, I can guarantee that!) and allow other ministries to do what God has called them to do?” (28 Seth) – um… this is missing the body of Christ – we do not isolate, but work together because we have been given a ministry of reconciliation.
The ministry of reconcilliation (2 Corinthians 5:18) is reconciling people to God, not reconciling Christians to Christians. You’ve said your piece about how sinful a picture of people can be. You’ve made it clear that large churches are that way because they use impure images to attract people. You’ve clearly stated your opinion on Scripture and its interpretation. Let that be it.
Any chance you’ll make higher res images available for download so we can use ‘em, too?
Hey Jeff, sorry about that man, that was a terrible reference (typed before I made sure). I should have used Ephesians or somthing else.
As for your statement about “large churches.” I do not believe that size has anything to do with it, nor do I think that a particular part of a church using these images makes the whole church sinful.
Peace man.
This is DISGUSTING!! There I said it!!
2 Peter 2:22 “Of them the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit,’ and, ‘A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.’ ”
You are, sir, trying to appeal to the lust of the flesh. Shame on you!
Every one of us will give an account of our actions to God and I wonder if we might hear something like, “I sent you out into the world to love all people into my arms. Instead, you argued over postcards.” If we as followers of Jesus can be more passionate about loving people back into the arms of Christ than we are about correcting each other…well, I’m pretty sure we’d be better off.
Let me ask you one question Jerry- Do you think these postcards are going to help people realize that they are sinners in need of a Savior? Do you think if our Lord of Lords was viewing these postcards He would pat you on the back and say “Well done- my good and faithful servant” – “Thank you for promoting sex”? Do you really think that these cards are going to bring people to Christ? Why don’t you read you Bible and find out the truth.
Philippians 4:8
“Finally, Brothers, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is PURE, whatever is lovely, whatever is amirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy- think about such things.”
Bottom line up front, all of these “post cards” are an appeal based on lust. You know that if one of my daughters had posed in such a provocative way (as in the middle “card”), she and I would be having one serious conversation and the “Pastor” that had her do it – well we would step out back and deal with it like men.
There is no way that any of these can be justified as being God Honoring or Gospel Glorifying.
The comment was made earlier that this was simply about “philosophy of ministry” and that students should be “attracted” by images that they already see. Really? So does that mean it is okay to use the “soft core porn” that is much of television and most movies to attract them to small groups and church? I don’t think you would – but taking that comment to it’s logical absurdity shows the moral and biblical deficiency of your argument.
Try this – how about attracting them to small groups and church with the beauty of Christ – His person and work. How about magnify the glories of salvation – God redeeming us when we deserved something far worse.
You don’t have to look, act, talk, dress, think like the world to reach them – in fact, if we do all of that then why bother coming to us at all?
Maybe Saddleback Church should decide to “hold fast to sound doctrine” rather than Hollywood hype and Madison Ave. marketing.
To Corey, who wrote this statement:
That’s why when I read about how Paul used “an alter with the inscription ‘to an unknown god’” when preaching to unbelievers in Athens (Acts 17:16-34) I am convinced that we need to use objects and images familiar with our unbelieving culture just as he did.
Do you think Paul put Greek idol displays in his church or did a dramatization of Zeus with Hera for a Sunday night special? Come on now- this is nonsense. We as a church do not lower our standards and follow the world. The Lord says we cannot serve two masters. I can certainly see where Saddleback is headed, especially now that your Senior pastor can’t decide whether homosexuality is wrong or not. I pray that this church will repent because I am sorry to say the Lord is coming back real soon and he will judge what is going on with the churches today. Repent and come back to the Lord!
To Faith in Post #36:
I really struggled over whether to post that comment (#35) or not. I had really read and re-read the comments that were given up to that point. I was saddened by the condescension with which it seemed many people were sharing thier views. I found very little humility and very little “speaking the truth in love” as some were claiming to be doing. I’m certainly no perfect person and I know so well that I am a sinful man saved by a gracious, loving Savior. And because of that, I really don’t feel any need to defend myself. You have asked/challenged me saying “Why don’t you read your Bible and find out the truth.” I will absolutely continue to do that, but please don’t assume that I haven’t.
Perhaps these postcards won’t do anything to attract anyone to small groups. But neither will those who claim to follow Christ and yet seem so intent on putting others in their place with a judgmental spirit, such as I have been reading in these comments. How will the world know that we are Jesus’ followers? Not by slick marketing, not by “culturally relevant” images on postcards, not by hype, and not by strategy. The world will know about the love of Christ by the way Jesus’ followers treat their fellow disciples. Our greatest evangelism and apologetic is the heart, compassion, and love with which we handle one another. And in reading most of the comments in #’s 1-34, I just felt that was woefully lacking. That is why I wrote what I wrote in comment #35.
To Faith in post #38:
You asked, “Do you think Paul put Greek idol displays in his church or did a dramatization of Zeus with Hera for a Sunday night special?”. I don’t know because there is no evidence for that in scripture. What is in scripture is what I included in my post.
You said, “I can certainly see where Saddleback is headed, especially now that your Senior pastor can’t decide whether homosexuality is wrong or not.” I don’t go to Saddleback, but I do support Rick Warren. Where do you get the idea that he is somehow ambivalent on homosexuality? He has taken so much heat lately for speaking out to his congregation in favor of Proposition 8 (the amendment to the California constitution to define marriage as only between a man and a woman) Just because he works with homosexuals on common issues (i.e. AIDS, feeding the poor and other social causes) does not mean that he believes homosexuality is not a sin. We could all take some lessons from this great man.
You guys should check out John 17… It says that when the church becomes unified the world will truly see God’s love… quit arguing about pictures and pray for your kids… there are different “stragtegies” for ministry… Their’s seems to be working for them so let it be… If you think their strategy would work in your community use it… simple as that
Corey
Respectfully, many today are taking scripture out of context to fit their own version of what they would like to be true, when in reality Paul was making a comment about how the Greeks were worshipping an unknown god. He was making a point that his God was the One Creator that sent His Son to die for us and they were worshipping a god that they knew nothing about. Paul was not using objects or displays- he was allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through him. Honestly, can you say that the Holy Spirit is speaking to the young people through these postcards?
By the way – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIWSyMrhRA. Sounds like Rick Warren is backtracking to me.
Jerry
In no way am I trying to be condescending, but I don’t know if you have any kids or not- well I do and three of them, one a teenager. I have to fight this stuff each and every day with prayer and the Word- I DO NOT want now our churches trying to reach my child with sexual innuendos! they get it enough out in the world already as it is. I have to fight tv, computors, social life, magazines, movies, etc… and now I have to fight the youth directors at a church who are suppose to be there to help guide our children to Christ??
Please excuse my anger, but the leaders in church will be held more accountable to the Lord in what they teach these young people. And yes I do have love- I have love for these young people who are vulnerable still in this secular world- WHO may go away from this church thinking that it is a-ok to think this way, because the youth director condones putting it out for everyone to see.
Rick Warren…please watch for yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urEg5dmYejU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ealittleleaven%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded
“You guys should check out John 17… It says that when the church becomes unified the world will truly see God’s love… quit arguing about pictures and pray for your kids… there are different “stragtegies” for ministry… Their’s seems to be working for them so let it be… If you think their strategy would work in your community use it… simple as that”
Pragmatic theology alert…not the first instance but the most overt.
You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. We must ot be conformed to the ways of this world but be conforming this world to the ways of God.
The fundamental flaw with this poor marketing strategy is just that, “why are we depending on our own human ability to attract the already lost, and condemned, rather than depending on the Almighty to convict the heart’s of all people alike?”
Have yo not read? Jesus warned against false prphets as wolves in sheeps clothing. Homosexuality is one of the greatest sins. Fot it is not only a sin against God but a sin against our own bodies. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed because of it. Oh Rick Warren woe unto you my friend! How long will you attempt to serve two masters? How long will you lead the willing and faithful astray?
We need to preach the full truth of the gospel. Part of love is to correct one and other as a parent corrects their child out of discipline. We need to be seperate from this world.
Don’t defend this campaign when you know in your hearts it is purely contradictory to the teachings of Christ Jesus. Confess it was an aboniable strategy, be bold enough and humble enough to admit that it was a poor choice of judgement and learn from it.
I suggest fasting and meditating on the word of God and striving to know the true heart of God.
Shalom Shalom
i know dan… God forbid we believe in actually what the Bible says, take it literally, and believe in its power to actually do what it says
Ok John 17- Hmmmm……
vs. 9 “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.”
vs. 14- “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”
Now look a little bit earlier in John-(Remember as a Christian we are not to contextualize- meaning you should not take one little scripture and make it to fit your meaning)
Lets look at John 15:18-19 (this might make you a little uncomfortable, so prepare yourself)
“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.”
Now, I will say this with love – If we do things so that the world will love us more or accept us more then the church and you have a problem don’t ya think? Christ says that the world is going to hate us because it hates Christ, because the message of Christ is an affront to the world and its values, which by the way are the values you are trying to portray with these postcards. I would really ask what you are trying to do here? God called us to be separate not embrace. I would then ask yourself “Do I really know Him?”
Updated this post: click images to grab them in HD
JG
I’m glad my salvation isn’t based on what any of you guys think. I’m sure that when we get to heaven there will be a lot of people there that we didn’t think would make it.
wow faith you didn’t address my citation of scripture at all…I think we all know if we live a christian life we will suffer period…we will… but maybe i am misunderstanding your comment because my citation of john 17 is specifically about relationships within the church. I am assuming that if you are correcting my theology that you are a member of the body of Christ and therefore part of the “church”. The comment I made in the beginning was to address people’s attacks on saddleback church. Let me re emphasize my point. When we as the body of Christ are united with one purpose the world will see a picture of God’s love. Why would non believers want to become a part of something that attacks itself… by attacking itself i’m referring to the judgemental and negative comments above about rick warren and others
Josh, thanks for posting the high res versions. I appreciate it!
Wow, didn’t realize people were freaking out over the images. I still love ya, Josh!
Oh, I know which verse you are talking about- John 17:21. But if you read all of this chapter you will realize that Christ is calling those who are His to separate from the world, yet yes we are in the world, but we are not to be like the world and the world will hate us because of it. I think I made the point quite clear- You are being like the world to try to please those who are unbelievers. Instead, the unbelievers that you try to woo, will only think hey the Christians are just as worldly as I am, so why do I need to change? Then, those same unbelievers will then be assimilated in the church without truely knowing the Savior. Yes, you are right when you say that the church needs to be one, but not when one part of the church starts leaving Biblical doctrine. There is tons of scripture to back up Christians standing up when churches start leaving the faith and follow the world.
Here is one which is happening right now- We are in the last church today: Revelation 3:14 “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind , and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be ric; and white rainment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.”
I say this again in love- The Bible is full of rebuke from Paul to the Christians to live righteous and pure lives- not follow the world. And with this I can rest my head on, where as you have to keep defending your poor decisions in producing this sludge in the church.
Now to the point of Rick Warren- I would love for him to stand for what is right and not waver from the truth. But a clear and precise verse comes to mind- James 1:8- “But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.” Rick Warren says one thing one time and then another thing the next- He stated he was against homosexuality and for prop. 8 and then next he gets on Larry King and says the totally opposite. He is not solid on the Word. I am not beholden to Rick Warren, I am beholden to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Who the hell came up with this idea (small-group-5.jpg)? Aaron Spelling? “Spoiled, Rich, White, Catholic Kids.” Coming soon on CW. Seriously, it does reminds me of a series the WB aired, strangely enough, not long after the Columbine shooting.
Wow, relevant and everything.
Why are “small groups” so important? Try teaching sound doctrine in a large group. Small groups are just brainwashing exercises. Don’t be fooled young people, I know first-hand. Small group exercises are dialectic consensus building group-think. Look it up, google it…
I love how Tim Schmoyer asks for the pics in High Def, trying to
be a smart ASS, when he started crying over on facebook because somebody criticized his Summer Plans to cancel Bible Studies for the Summer, because…hey, sometimes you need a vacation..errrr….i mean regroup and focus! LOL
Thanks for some great small group promo – should create some laughs and discussion which is the whole point of promo! Cheers from Canada.