Stop asking how much my youth budget is.
When I was in Chicago for SYMC Josh and I were chatting about budgets over steaks and a blue cheese wedge (which I had never seen or heard of until then) and we were batting around the complexity of budgeting and the fact that there its really tough to compare one church to another. But it never surprises me how the question of “how much is your youth budget?” is never far away when talking among Youth Pastors. My Church is mid-sized (2,000 people) but many of the Churches around us are smaller and talking about youth budgeting can become an apples and oranges conversation unless you crunch the numbers down to a comparable figure.
I have learned that when we talk about your budget is to never talk about the total, because unless you have the exact same size ministry, the numbers won’t really matter. Its much easier to have these conversations when you calculate dollars per active student. I would suggest that contrary to what Mark Devries (Sustainable Youth Ministry) argues, that a figure that excludes your salary is better because, salaries can be very different; even regionally, and in a single Youth Pastor setting that difference can skew the figures. And lets face it, it also keeps us from doing a head count at each others youth group and trying to crunch the numbers to figure out what each other make.
When I polled the Youth Ministries in my area, my other Youth Pastor friends were shocked when my quick survey revealed that their budgeting had between $110 and $175 per student per year and me at the “big church” was $48. It is really easy to be jealous when you hear what some youth ministries have for budget because you hear the total number, but the reality is that when you do the math its probably not nearly as rosy as you think.
So I guess what I am getting at is, if you want to have a great conversation with other youth pastors about money, maybe ask them how much they budget per student. Asking this way will result in less discouragement and allow for discussion of vision, value and purpose instead of, WHOA!, they give you how much?!?!?!
Geoff Stewart is the Pastor of Jr & Sr High School for Journey Student Ministries at Peace Portal Alliance Church and regularly contributes GUEST POSTS to MTDB. Be sure to check out his Twitter stream for awesome ministry goodness. Want to get in on the fun and write up a guest post yourself? See how right here.
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Josh Griffin has been in youth ministry for 16+ years in a small church and a big church. He currently serves as the High School Pastor at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA. [
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Geoff Stewart serves the Jr / Sr High School Pastor at Peace Portal Alliance Church in Surrey B.C.
Chris Wesley serves as the Director of Student Ministry at Church of the Nativity in Timonium, Maryland.
Colton Harker serves with Josh at Saddleback Church. He is currently in his second year in youth ministry.
I agree with when trying to get in the comparison of budgets between youth ministries…in fact that is a ” no win” conersation. Churches cultures in budgeting will always differ.
For being in a 2,000 size church in my mind is not a mid-sized church at least in my area where those sized churches are the larger churches in the area and the majority are in the hundreds.
I feel the same way. 2,000 is a HUGE church! JG
I’ve worked in big and small churches over course of my ministry with teenagers. One thing I’ve noticed is, as the size of the youth group increases, while the overall size of the budget may increase, the actual dollars per student may decrease. I worked in a small church (300 members) with a small youth ministry (30 kids) and had a budget of nearly $125 per involved student. In my current setting, the church is much larger (1500 members) with a much larger youth group (125). My actual budget for youth is roughly $9at 5 per student. However, I also find I have more money at the end of the day. I spend roughly the same amount on curriculum, games and prizes in my current church as I did in my previous church. What I’ve noticed is, the larger the group gets, the less per student you actually need because some costs and expenses remain the same whether you have 20 kids or 2000 in your youth ministry.
Yeah, I definitely chuckled to myself when he said 2000 is a “mid-sized” church.
Anyway, it also depends how much you really need for your youth. While we only have
How did you figure out the cost per student?
Nick
http://www.nickfarr.me
I guess I am just used to the size of my Church that it doesn’t seem that big. haha.
Chad – you are quite right, fixed costs for the most part are the same, Curriculum, honorariums, prizes and equipment and this cost averaged out decreases as the group size goes up. But as group size goes up, new challenges arise, leader costs, busses to move students and those don’t get much cheaper with growth. I would agree that you do need less money per student as numbers increase but not a drastic decrease.
Nick – Cost per students can be found by taking your budget lets say $10,000 / Active Students 100 = $100 per student per year. I am currently at $48. The range that is out there is staggering, but there was a time within the past 10 yrs at my Church where it was $400+ per student.
Geoff,
Thanks! That puts around $190 per student. Is that good? bad? We have about 200 active students.
To quote myself “Whoa! They give you how much!?!?” I would say that given the current economic climate you are doing really well. That is enough to take great care of training and discipling leaders and investing in outreach opportunities.
You are a blessed man!
GS
Geoff – You’re right, it’s not a drastic decrease. I’m sure most youth leaders would discover a slight drop as numbers increase and it probably wouldn’t be that big of a deal. We had a pretty good jump in our middle school ministry attendance last year and it pushed us pretty hard on our budget. This year, we’ve increased our overall budget to reflect last year’s spending but the overall cost per student is down about $20 or so. We’ve increased in attendance again but we’re working hard to keep our budget in check.
Nick – It’s hard to figure what’s appropriate for your group. Ethan had a great point. In a wealthy area, you have very different needs your budgeting than in poorer areas. In an affluent area, many parents will just cut a check for that $1500.00 mission trip to Peru. However, in less affluent churches and neighborhoods, you may need significantly more because your kids can’t even afford the $7.00 for an ice skating outing. This is where long term planning can really be beneficial. If you plan your budget knowing you’re going to do a service project in November, a retreat in March and a mission trip in July and you have a pretty good idea of how many kids will participate (as well as a good idea of how much you’re going to need for scholarships, curriculum, etc). It helps give you a good idea of what you’ll need to approach you church board for during the budgeting process (or how much your going to have work when it comes to fundraising).
Thanks guys!
Geoff – I’m going through my budget right now for next year and am struggling to pull it back. I’m curious if you would be willing to email me your budget. I’m in a similarly sized church and can’t figure out where I’m overspending (or underspending). Or I could email you mine and talk you through it.
Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks.
JM